Or maybe they will launch Win 12 with optional TPM support.

Imho making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business, many people are still on Win 10 with no intention to switch, since their motheboard does not support TPM and do not want to upgrade PC / waste PCI-E slot on TPM extension.

  • Adequately_Insane@lemmy.worldOP
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    11 months ago

    If I was not using my PC for gaming also, I would probably say fuck them and be on Linux too. But gaming on Linux is cancer.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        Gaming on Windows just works, gaming on Linux can work but might be problematic with some hardware (as is the case with OP based on another comment they made), let’s not pretend it’s as easy.

        • Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi
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          11 months ago

          I probably wouldn’t call it cancer, seems quite loaded, but gaming on Linux still has its snags even if performance on it its better. Like you and OP said, hardware is a big issue, but also some gaming-oriented creature comforts like a proper platform for recording/screenshotting. Steam has screenshotting but not recording AFAIK, Yes, OBS exists, but let’s be real - it’s clunky to set up because it’s not meant to be a game recorder, it’s meant to be broadcasting software. On Windows, it will detect a running game automatically and let you record. Someone did send me another piece of software that’s simpler, but it doesn’t support Wayland. The transition from X11 to Wayland is affecting a lot of software like this, and Windows just doesn’t have this issue.

          • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            11 months ago

            I still don’t really understand the reason for switching to Wayland, especially since it sounds like it’s still rather half baked even after all this time

            • Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi
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              11 months ago

              As far as I know, the protocol is pretty much standardised and it’s now up to the desktop environments to support and implement it, and that transition took a lot of time. GNOME has already been there and on its way to winding down X11 support, KDE has also been building up its Wayland support too. Waydroid (Android container software) requires it, and Valve uses it for Gamescope on SteamOS too iirc, to give games a more predictable place to render themselves on. Everyone’s got a kick up the ass with regards to Wayland support recently, but for smaller, independent/non-corp backed or niche software, of course, it’s gonna take a bit longer.

            • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              More than it being half baked, it’s that is not a drop in replacement. It works differently, on purpose. So DEs, apps and even drivers (looking at you Nvidia) need to make changes to adapt to it.

              For example apps that user screen sharing had to be reworked, because X11 allowed any app to just see the screen without any user action (I think Windows also does this, Android and iOS require at least a one time permission), but Wayland doesn’t allow that as it’s a security/privacy risk.

              • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                11 months ago

                I guess I really should dig into it and understand it better… It and systemd aren’t going away so I should just bite the bullet and learn them

        • 𝕽𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖙@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Having recently switched myself I actually have experienced less issues and better game performance from Linux than I did on Windows, at least with the games I play and the hardware I have.

          Definitely not what I would call cancer

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            “at least with the games I play”

            As mentioned in a recent article that was shared around here, for the games that work on Linux performance on average is 17% better, for the games that don’t work on Linux, performance is infinitely better on Windows 😛

            • 𝕽𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖙@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              For sure, but these days the main offenders are online multiplayer games with restrictive anti-cheats.

              I would go so far as to say if those specific types of games are not your thing you aren’t likely to experience any issues gaming on Linux.

              I’m sure there are exceptions, but every time I think “oh this game for sure won’t work” I have eaten my words.

              And it’s like a night and day difference from the last time I tried to do this about a year and a half ago. The progress I’ve seen is almost more impressive than the performance gains. 🤷

              • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                But if you switch to Linux for gaming, and the game you want to play doesn’t work… Well it’s not like you can trade that 17% performance improvement in to get the game to function.

                That’s a huge roadblock if you don’t know what games won’t work.

                • 𝕽𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖙@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Yeah I mean if the game you want to play doesn’t work then maybe Linux isn’t for you, at least not at this time.

                  Not saying you have to switch.

                  Just that my personal experience with it has been very good, better than I expected, and way better than my previous experience not long ago.

                  As others have mentioned, you can check the status of your preferred games on websites like ProtonDB beforehand, you don’t have to format your Windows drive and install Linux before finding out if your games will work.

                • FierySpectre@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  There’s websites where you can check if a game can be played on Linux. For me personally I know a game I play a fair bit won’t work on linux for a fact, and most of the stuff I need I can get to work on Windows just fine.

                • laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  11 months ago

                  You can always dual boot for those games … A pain, I know, but doable.

                  Might even be able to run it on VM, especially if you set up a type 2 hypervisor. Again, that’s it’s own pain, but really should only be that on initially getting it to work rather than every time

                  • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                    11 months ago

                    But if I have to have a full Windows installation that I need to keep up to date, with the full setup of drivers and other software that I need to run games, what advantage does an average person (not software dev/IT enthusiast) have from running a second OS for the things that do work on both OSes?

                    It’s kinda like saying “This racing kit car is amazingly fast, you can tinker on it and reconfigure it, and for everything that you can’t do in the kit car, you can just keep a family minivan around”.

                    That’s nice for a racing/car enthusiast. But most people just want one car to do all they need.

          • papabobolious@feddit.nu
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            11 months ago

            I have had no issues either, but setting a PC up for my little sister I quickly realized that for her it was a lot different. Games like Fortnite, Rainbow Six Siege and Valorant do not run.

            • Apothecary@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Valorants a big one for me. If I wasn’t hopelessly addicted I’d have jumped ship on that games kernel level anti-cheat and windows all together

      • FierySpectre@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Some of the games I play can’t be played on Linux because of anti-cheat. One even uses a fucking kernel-mode driver on windows so it sure as hell ain’t working on linux

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      Do you only play Valorant and Rainbow 6 Siege? Most of my games work now by simply clicking Play, which wasn’t the case even 2 years ago.

      • Square Singer@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        There’s some bug between KDE, my Nvidia GPU, Prime, Proton and DXVK that causes my whole system to freeze (can’t even switch to console) if I try to play games with the GPU selection set to “on-demand”.

        If I completely disable the Intel GPU, it runs fine, but that means I basically can’t use the laptop without a charger (because the battery drains so fast), unless I switch the GPU setting (requires a reboot) every time I want to game.

        • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          Totally fair about the laptop issues. I know sound, wifi, touchpads, fingerprint unlocks aren’t always fully compatible, and prime switcher can put up a fuss (though I remember using an alternative back in the day). I guess I’m just astounded from where I started (looking through WineHQ and GamingOnLinux forums, trying the scripts and crossing my fingers) to now, where my rig is beefy enough that a small performance hit that Proton could cause isn’t noticeable at all.

          Thinking about it again, Gaming On Linux is cancerous, in the sense that it’s grown exponentially, and thanks to Valve’s support with Proton and the Steam Deck, the OS once was an afterthought for gaming has “metastasized” itself into relevancy.

          • Square Singer@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Sure, it’s much better than it has been a few years ago.

            But it’s still not nearly at the point where I would blindly recommend it to non-technical people and call it easy. There’s still a way to go.

            On the other hand I have no problem recommending Linux to the typical “I only use an OS to run a browser” user. That wasn’t the case 5 or 10 years ago.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        Not everyone wants to buy separate hardware for gaming, OP mentioned in another comment that Linux doesn’t play well with their laptop if they want to play games on it. It’s funny to see some of the Linux crowd being unable to admit that it just isn’t as plug and play as running Windows… Especially with an Nvidia GPU.

        • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Eh? I wasn’t suggesting they buy separate hardware. I was just responding to the comment about Linux being cancer for gaming. The Steam Deck is literally proof that the OS is completely viable for gaming. I’ve been gaming just fine on my desktop with an Nvidia 3090. Linux really isn’t as bad as you think it is. It’s funny how there’s a bunch of Windows users that refuse to believe that gaming can happen on another OS. Just sounds close minded tbh.

      • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Dude just wants Microsoft-sempai to notice him. I don’t think reason or facts are very useful

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          Lol.

          Just look at the comments here about gaming problems on Linux.

          Seriously - you never see these problems on windows these days.

          “We’ll, just buy different hardware” is one answer. Imagine saying that to someone who has an extant gaming setup running windows.

          • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            You mean OP whose hardware will be obsolete for running up to date Windows and it’s on the bargaining stage of grief?

            I use Linux for gaming. I have no problems nor I’ve found a game I can’t play. I know there are, just that no game I wanted to play had idea issues, and I don’t even check before buying them anymore. And I’m supposed to have bad hardware for Linux, having had Nvidia all my life.

            Most comments I’ve seen are from people who haven’t tried, just parrot what others parroted.

            • Cyfress@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              I recall setting up wine for the original World of Warcraft. That was such a pain to do. Performance was great.

              Running games on Linux now is easier than I ever could imagine. Especially with steam and the other launchers added such as Lutris.

              Been rocking the game Grounded on my steam deck while my kids are on their windows machines. And it has great performance even output to 1080p monitor.

              I agree it seems like most the comments are from people who haven’t even attempted to run games on it. Or maybe there attempt was just to double clicked the setup.exe and it didn’t work like windows and they threw their arms up and walked away.

              • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                Feels like ages ago interacting directly with wine. Wine tricks, Play on Linux, Crossover, Lutris, Bottles and Steam with Proton. Each one better and better and simpler than the previous.

                And let’s not forget Nvidia drivers. For the past 3 years at least they are just baked into the the Distros I use, even less work to make them work than Windows.

    • nickknack@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Not so much anymore, it’s apparently improved significantly and getting better all the time. Check out linux_gaming. A lot of avid proponents there given the shitshow M$FT has made of Windows.

        • noodlejetski@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          only 20 yr old games worked great on Linux

          I’ve got over 900 hours clocked in Apex Legends, and about 100 in Valheim. I’ve been playing multiple games from the past 5 years without any issues.

        • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          At the same time, Baldurs Gate 3 is the most played game (in hours) on the steam deck for the past 2 months. A game that had to be delayed on Xbox because the series S couldn’t handle it.

          If you see a large difference in performance Windows/Linux then dinner m something is not right. Might be Nvidia card with the open source drivers?

    • MyNamesNotRobert@lemmynsfw.com
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      11 months ago

      I game on Linux and don’t even have Windows installed. If a game doesn’t work on Linux, it isn’t worth playing so I refund/don’t get it in the first place. I’m tired of getting fucked by Windows so I’m not going to use it. At this point I just don’t care about what doesn’t work on Linux, I’m better off using it than any of the other choices anyway.