- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
This also includes ceasing development and destroying their copies of the code.
The GitHub repo page for Yuzu now returns a 404, as well. In addition, the repo for the Citra 3DS emulator was also taken down.
As of at least 23:30 UTC, Yuzu’s website and Citra’s website have been replaced with a statement about their discontinuation.
Other sources found by @[email protected]:
- https://gbatemp.net/threads/yuzu-emulator-shutting-down-paying-nintendo-2-4-million-in-lawsuit-settlement.650039/
- https://www.gamesindustry.biz/nintendos-yuzu-lawsuit-puts-emulation-in-the-spotlight-opinion
- https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-says-tears-of-the-kingdom-was-pirated-1-million-times-pre-release-in-lawsuit-against-emulator-creator
There is also an active Reddit thread about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1b6gtb5/
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I’m sorry but how is using the actual keys from a legally purchased system circumventing anything? It’s like saying using the actual key to your own front door counts as breaking and entering.
DRM is evil. Laws prohibiting circumventing DRM are also evil.
Nintendo’s angle is more along the lines of:
- We gave our friend Switchy the keys to a lockbox.
- You tricked Switchy into giving you our keys.
- We didn’t authorize you to use those keys.
- Using our keys without our permission is circumventing our DRM.
- Yuzu is a tool that enables you to use our keys.
- It’s illegal to distribute tools to circumvent DRM.
It’s a massive reach, but it’s a plausible argument—or even a good one if the judge is a technologically illiterate luddite. Beyond that, Nintendo is the kind of litigant that will drag out a lawsuit until the other party is forced to settle.
A court in Germany has recently decided that reading the code of a software you legally purchased and finding plain text passwords there is illegal hacking.
The person was hired to do a security audit (by a third party) and disclosed the finding to the software developer, not even to his own employer.
The developer decided to sue him instead of fixing the problem.
At this point I have lost all trust in the technological capacities of judges out there.
There’s a different kind of judge now than the technologically illiterate?
I can’t quite remember the name, but there is actually at least one U.S. judge that takes the time and effort to learn about the technology in depth before making a ruling.
He’s William Alsup, who presided over the Oracle vs Google case about Java API copyrightability.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alsup#Notable_cases
Thank you. I need to bookmark this glorious man’s Wikipedia page.
Then companies must go out of their way to avoid them.
Not sure it will ever get better. Maybe a single person being allowed to decide a case that requires a technical understanding should be consulted by experts in it. I guess a better lawyer probably should have made that happen (shouldn’t have to). But, as the old geezers die off and the younger “tech savvy” people take over, they will no longer be young or tech savvy, technologywill keep progressing and pass us up too. And you don’t want an actual young person as a judge. So… the system is just broken.
If I’m not authorized to use those keys, how do I use Switchy?
I guess all Nintendo games are illegal to play by that argument, even with their console
Because the dmca says so.
It shouldn’t be illegal, but it is because the law about it was written by the industry 25 years ago because our lawmakers think the internet and indoor plumbing work the same way.
Hey man, IP, you pee, whatever.
Except of course anyone can manufacture and sell plug compatible pipes.
Whether or not you paid for the game is completely irrelevant to whether Yuzu is designed to circumvent DRM. DRM is designed to prevent making unauthorized copies, which is exactly what Yuzu does, regardless of whether you paid for it or not.
I’m not defending Nintendo, just the English language.
Yes, but the emulator doesn’t circumvent any copy protection. It utilizes the decryption key from your own hardware (assuming you dumped it yourself) to run ROMs which have already had the DRM circumvented by whatever was used to dump them in the first place (which the emulator doesn’t do).
This is generally the same reason why emulators such as Bleem (which works the same way as Yuzu with the decryption keys but for PS1) have been ruled legal in past court cases.
A good analogy would be that you’re using their keys, on their locks, but put in a different door.
Honestly
It isn’t, but when you are a small project the law is inconsequential if a massive corporation goes after you and you don’t have the money for the legal battle.
I’m pretty sure the keys aren’t a part of the actual game/download, it’s a part of your Switch. So if you have an emulator with one of those keys built in, it’s piracy.
I think what they should have done is prompt the user to put it in themselves and then we could just find keys on the internet and avoid this whole situation. But I’m no expert
I think what they should have done is prompt the user to put it in themselves and then we could just find keys on the internet and avoid this whole situation. But I’m no expert
That’s exactly how it is… Yuzu does not distribute those files. They give you a guide on how to dump it yourself from your own Switch.
Oh… Huh, yeah then I’m with you lol, idk how they ended up winning that battle
Yuzu settled. They basically laid down and died. But I don’t blame them. $2.4m is probably nothing compared to what they would have paid in legal fees to actually go to court. Even if they won.
They’re likely not going to win. Nintendo’s legal team is pretty strong as far as I know.
You didn’t read the article did you?
Because you’re using the system outside of its intended purpose to break the law. That’s basically the definition of hacking.
I’m not sure why it being illegal to sell a tool to do that is a hard concept to grasp for so many people.
I’m not against emulation or pirating, but no shit this was going to happen eventually.
Okay, so no, it’s not hacking. It doesn’t fall under hacking laws. It’s not illegal to sell hacking tools. Basically, everything you said is wrong.
In this case, it’s all about copyright and the DMCA, which made it illegal to break the copyright protection systems companies put in place or to make or distribute tools to break copyright protection systems.
So, nothing to do will selling things or hacking. Everything to do with copyright and draconian dot come era laws.
Circumventing copyright protections by using encryption keys in an unauthorized manner is hacking.
This case might not be explicitly about hacking, but profiting off tools that use IP to circumvent protections is illegal.
It’s not hacking. Sorry.
The electronic key I purchased and collected from my own hardware is “hacking” because Nintendo’s doesn’t intend it? Maybe the legality of selling a tool to get the key is a hard concept to grasp because the premise is objectionable. If a Switch makes a good doorstop then it will be doing it’s “intended purpose” if that’s what I intend for my property.
I’m against companies having unjust control over our own computing.
You might own the hardware, but you don’t own the rights to the OS that runs on it. The encryption key is part of that software.
It’s not a hard concept to grasp. If I was openly selling a tool to break the activation lock on Windows, I could expect the same result.
deleted by creator
That’s a ridiculous idea. If I buy a computer with an OS that has an encryption key to protect the hard drive, and later I need that key to remove my data to another system, I have an entirely reasonable expectation that I’m allowed to do so, regardless of how much the computer manufacturer doesn’t want me to.
Wow. Fuck Nintendo. I own 2 switches and ToTK. Of course I emulate it, so I don’t have to play at 20fps. And I can mod the game. Not buying another nintendo product again. I’m done. I’ll just pirate it since it seems I don’t own it anyways. Can’t play it where I want, how I want, so why play by the rules at all.
The fuck? Why? Emulators are entirely legal and they could’ve won
Nintendo went after them for using (not distributing)
prod.keysto decrypt game titles and system firmware under 17 U.S.C. 1201 (2), which sidesteps having to challenge the legality of emulation directly. I guess Yuzu doesn’t have the funds to fight them in court on that.How would they fight it if they had the money? Did they have a significant use case other than piracy?
Easy. Game preservation.
Game preservation is explicitly exclusided from the dmca true, but only only when the game needs online servers which have now been shut down.
So it would not work in this case at all.
On an unrelated note…
Exclusided
Not sure how your device let that one slip but I’m actually kind of sad it’s not a real word.
They settled because they actively endorsed and proliferated illegal piracy.
They couldn’t play that angle with what they were doing.
Well that’s unfortunate, because Nintendo has a terrible track record for game preservation.
Counterpoint: Fuck Nintendo
Is it piracy to play my legally purchased and backed up games on an emulator?
Edit: a lot of people responding to this are accidentally answering the question above. Yes, those are the things they would have fought if they had the money to go up against Nintendo.
To those saying that it is indeed piracy – pretty sure the law has disagreed up to this point. Note that Nintendo didn’t win this suit, Yuzu settled. No legal precedent set (yet).
You likely don’t have any liability but thats why Nintendo sued them and not you
If you circumvent the copyright protection systems to do so, then under American law yes. If you don’t like this, you have to campaign for change.
Do you believe there is a chance of success for campaigning for change?
Every few years, more things are added as exceptions to the DMCAs circumvention clause. There’s a whole host of exceptions, and they are all exceptions in favor of people over companies. Those exceptions came about because people who care fought for them.
Do you have any specific examples and how long it took, or how much it cost? It seems farfetched to think it is feasible to counter the “anti circumvention technology” aspect of the DMCA.
Yes.
Does it matter? I suspect that if that’s what you did, you were one of very few people doing so, and the law doesn’t require the absence of any possible legitimate use. In this case, something is illegal if it
is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
has only limited commercially significant purpose or use
You asked if there was a significant use-case. That’s what it is, and why emulators have remained legal up to this point.
How many people take advantage of that use-case over piracy is a different point.
Also the law has not decided anything here, yet. As far as the law is concerned, emulators are still legal.
It’s a use case, but I would argue that it’s not a significant use case.
Emulators are still legal in theory, but I doubt that it is in practice possible to make an emulator for a modern video game system without violating some other part of the law.
It’s a use case, but I would argue that it’s not a significant use case.
And that’s the answer to your question about what Yuzu would have fought if they had the money to take on Nintendo.
Emulators are still legal in theory, but I doubt that it is in practice possible to make an emulator for a modern video game system without violating some other part of the law.
That’s exactly what hasn’t been determined, since Yuzu settled and it didn’t go to court.
Because Nintendo is a vexatious litigant that weaponizes the legal system in an attempt to bankrupt their opponents.
Yuzu wasn’t an opponent. They were literally selling hacking tools.
Yuzu provides a better experience for the user than Nintendo’s hardware - it is a superior opponent.
Doesn’t matter if they could have won, Nintendo’s lawyers could have dragged them through the courts until they ran out of money.
Double Jeopardy doesn’t apply to civil suits.
Nobody has the money to beat Nintendo.
They agreed to delete, “all circumvention tools used for developing or using Yuzu—such as TegraRcmGUI, Hekate, Atmosphère, Lockpick_RCM, NDDumpTool, nxDumpFuse, and TegraExplorer,” and hand over any “physical circumvention devices” and “modified Nintendo hardware.
They know what their emulator was primarily used for. Key word here. Primarily.
They were selling hacking tools that used Nintendo’s IP to do so. That isn’t legal.
Having a legal use case doesn’t mean they weren’t breaking the law by profiting off of selling the tools.
I own a launch era Switch. When I run Yuzu, I use the keys that I pulled off of it. When I play games in Yuzu, they are games I have purchased and dumped using the Switch Nintendo sold me. The controller I use is a Nintendo Pro controller. I play on my computer because it is MUCH better at playing Switch games than my overclocked Switch is. Just fuck off with this Nintendo, stop making your games worse.
Your games should stutter just the way Nintendo intends them to or you’re not getting the full experience!
Tell me about your overclocked switch. How
Google “4ifir” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWcMsGa9Kjs
Your Switch needs to be hackable. If yours is any revision beyond the initial release chances are you are out of luck. I set it up a long while ago so I can’t recall the steps, but googling “Nintendo switch overclock” will get you what you’re looking for.
The Switch is based on the Nvidia Shield, whose stock clocks are roughly double the Switch’s. This means you can OC it without exceeding the manufacturer’s specs, which is pretty neat. Bringing the memory clocks up really helps titles like ToTK.
I have a hackable Switch but I’m afraid of bricking it or something. Is that a concern? I’m pretty technically inclined but no genius.
It is dead simple, just make sure you get one of the little jobbies that you slide down the right joycon rail to short the pins that you need shorted - you’ll be doing it often when you’re setting things up and you don’t want to be messing around with a bit of wire. I seriously doubt that you will brick anything, especially if you take your time and read everything through before you get started. These instructions should get you where you want to be.
Let this be a lesson: if you try to forcibly pry open the gates of DRM hell and let software be free, you best let it be truly free and only money off it from the donations of your supporters. Don’t be like yuzu and monetize the living hell out of your emulator. Don’t stuff it with telemetry, don’t hide releases behind a patreon paywall.
That all being said, fuck Nintendo.
tbf there was never a paywall. ea = latest yuzu master branch with some work-in-progress-but-almost-ready-for-general-use prs merged in.
anyone could have taken the repo, merged prs from the list and built it, with no need to pay for anything. It’s free software after allThere was actually someone who did that, the repo was called pineapple-src and it was fairly popular
Yeah you’re right, it was brought to my attention that the lawsuit was about decrypting games, especially Tears of the Kingdom, before they were released. The monetization was just to provide earlier access to precompiled binaries
Bleem was a paid and they won, but this was before the anti circumvention addendum. Yuzu wasn’t sued for being an emulator, but because it used the keys file to decrypt games.
Should have let the decryption be fully external, and not just needing the keys
I started out in the computer industry working for a company that reverse engineered and built IBM compatible terminal systems, This was more than 40 years ago, when that was its own large and profitable sector of the computer hardware market. It was absolutely legal to build ‘plug compatible’ reverse engineered third party systems. DRM is almost entirely horseshit that has helped turn the entire tech industry into silo’d enshittified monopolies.
Nothing capitalists say about feudal rights mean much of anything. More or less the entire tech industry isn’t allowed to have non-competes and it’s such a big field because of it.
Then people will argue capitalism incentivizes innovation.
They’re wrong and it is ethical to steal their IP
Fuck DRM though, all my homies hate DRM.
And the digital millennium copyright act
Here is the latest stable build of Yuzu that I’ve got from 24 hours ago for anyone who wasn’t able to download it in time.
Anyone downloading executable code from a random person on the internet needs to take a course in digital safety.
I assume you’re not being malicious, OXero0, but none of us can possibly know that.
For anyone thinking of downloading it, wait until the popular, vetted forks show up. If you don’t already have a working version, you don’t need it today.
Yes, everyone should be careful downloading files from a rando on the internet. But at the same time, most people just want to get the files and don’t want or know how to deal with the source code. And everything is on archive.org but not everyone knows about it, and they probably don’t want to wait for a new emulator when they know the old one works.
I’m not saying that you should trust me, you don’t know me, I don’t know you, so as you said, it’s best to be careful anyway.
Btw, I’ve read that Yuzu collected telemetry, and now that Nintendo owns the site, it’s best to set up a firewall and block Yuzu from accessing the internet so be safe.
But she said shes clean, and the scabs are from a genital tattoo!
So surely its okay for me to fuck the 3 dollar hooker?
Best to get a copy or two of the source code
Money is a weapon in western society. You can’t win just because you’re right
Can’t blame them but at the same time, yeah kind of sad they folded as easily as a Nintendo DS.
I will say Nintendo can count on me, a older game with disposable income and kids, not buying a switch 2 with they way they’ve been acting with all of their lawsuit and anti-consumer practices.
Logging in to cancel my switch online right now. I was using YUZU to play games I bought from them, in some cases even more than once. F Nintendo. I won’t be buying a Switch 2.
Better yet, since their hate on piracy is so big, buy HACKED switch 2 when it’ll be available and pirate the fuck out of them
Just get a Steam Deck and be able to play Computer games too!
I honestly wish there a would be steam deck with size of psvita, the size is only problem, steam deck is better in everything but size
GPD sells a PSP Go shaped computer, which, if the Steam Deck didnt exist, was probably going to be the computer I would have ended up owning, but Valve’s version of Linux and its control mapping is PHENOMENAL, so I dont know how it’d compare in that sense
Edit: According to this video the GPD Win 4 works pretty amazingly with Steams OS, so it seems like a valid option
Yeah that was good, but price, and psvita had sensor controls as steam deck but gpd didn’t, yet i always wanted to have “gpd max” umpc since it’s versatile
Somebody would have most likely bought a switch 2 to hack it, so that’s still money in nintendos hand either way, plus free marketing/advertisement of nintendo IP. Fuck 'em.
Same here: When I want to buy a game for portable play, I’ll just use my Steam Deck and buy from Valve or GOG instead, maybe even emulate some Nintendo games on it out of spite.
Same, I gave my daughter my Switch and used Yuzu to play the games I owned for it on my TV (at greatly improved resolution and framerate, of course).
Now that my PC is hooked up to my TV, my next console is just Steam and my next portable will be the Steam Deck as well.
As another older gamer I have bought every single switch first party game to display them on my shelves. I also have them all on my PC as roms so I can enjoy them with high fidelity and stable 60 FPS.
I will neither buy another one of their games nor their next console and I also downloaded each and every rom I could find out of spite. I hope their next console crashes and burns like the Wii U…
Removed by mod
Old guy here: Fuck Nintendo
This right here. Disney and Nintendo get no more of my hard earned $$$. These companies create iconic products and they get paid for it. All of the DRM anti-consumer over-reach is where I draw the line though.
I can load a pirated copy onto a modded console, does that mean that Nintendo is liable for their software being used for piracy?
Yeah, they better pay themselves some damages… Oh wait.
Nintendo got them alone in a dark room and told them that if they don’t settle, admit and pay something they might be able to pay off in their lifetimes (Nintendo doesn’t care about the money, 2.4 million is nothing to them), Nintendo would tie them up in legal battles for years, still making them broke and probably blocking them from doing something new.
Or something.
Fucking corporate shills. Why can’t we just all have fun gaming. Piracy increases sales.
There’s no way they would state that directly, or they would be labeled a vexatious litigant. They might have emphasized their desire to refuse future settlement offers if the first one wasn’t taken, if you catch my drift.
Personally I think there’s a direct indirectness in everything you say to a person when alone in a dark room.
I was thinking of buying a few Nintendo games to use on an emulator but that’s a lot of effort and there are other good games out there. Glad I didn’t so I wouldn’t feel shame for giving them more money. Nintendo Direct my balls into your mouth.
Yup, I don’t think I’m buying any Nintendo products anytime soon
I mean, why would you? Nintendo has been anti-consumer for a long time now.
This is just a drop in the bucket for them, not nearly as bad as trying to extort lets players/streamers into giving over half their income to nintendo and shit like that.
I think some of us (At least TWO! [=P] ) were pretty much already ready to, and this was just the straw that broke the camels back
